crowhen: Supermodels don't have large breasts. That's porn stars.

Rachel Nabors (

crowhen) wrote,
@ 2008-07-20 00:23:00

Supermodels don't have large breasts. That's porn stars.
For some reason, when I hear girls ranting about anorexic models, invariably something about "huge boobs" comes up. Woah, woah, woah. Anorexic people don't have much body fat, and boobs are made of fat. Most pictures of anorexics and models I've seen have lacked boobage. And models are supposed skinny so clothes "hang off them."

Look at some footage of a runway. Do you see massive mammaries or ribs? I've looked, and invariably I don't see cleavage.

Even the models in Victoria's Secret catalogs have relatively small breasts in comparison with, oh, say, a modest 36C. How do I know this? Because strapless bras wouldn't sit like that on anyone with a larger bust. But photoshopping has been done to make the breasts seem larger, a highlight here and there will make them "pop", but they aren't that big.

Problem is, we women are confusing "supermodel" with "porn star." Many porn stars can have low body fat and large breasts because the breasts are, um, fake.

What sticks out most about this is why would we confuse the two? Why?

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	davidsfoley 2008-07-20 04:53 am UTC (link)
	Aside from anorexia being a body image issue (my thought being that perhaps, in an anorexic's view, supermodels do have large breasts), both supermodels and porn stars are seen and marketed as sex objects. One male's perspective anyway. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	angry_geologist 2008-07-20 12:46 pm UTC (link)
	The more diplomatic version of what I was going to say. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	madrona 2008-07-20 05:34 am UTC (link)
	Because they are shaping their bodies to someone else's unhealthy ideal in order to make money...they are in fact both in the trade of selling their health. Except for Velvet D'Amour. Who, say what you will, shapes her body to her own ideal of beauty. (Reply to this)

xodin
2008-07-20 06:10 am UTC (link)

The reason they confuse the two is because most people lack the level of conscious observational skills needed to be properly aware of the things they're exposed too. When they attempt later on to remember details they end up having to fill in the gaps they left in the mental record they made with loosely associated information.

Sherlock Holmes related the concept by claiming that people remember climbing stairs but don't remember how many steps there are. They look but don't observe. So later on they have to guess based on associated knowledge.

People assume that the ideal female figure is thin but busty, and so they correlate that concept into their memories of models (both fashion models and porn models) because they assume that a "Model" is supposed to represent the ideal female shape.

Of course this could lead me into a humongous rant about current views of anatomical idealism as well as the level of obliviousness inherent in the human condition, but for the sake of my OCD I shall refrain.

~Phillip Wright
Fan of the Venus of Willendorf

(Reply to this) (Thread)

bratkitty84
2008-07-20 07:42 am UTC (link)

I think they just lump the two together as one ideal that the media portrays as beauty. Most people don't think runway models when they say supermodel, they think magazines where most of them are either photoshopped or have implants.
The marketable ideal for feminine beauty is low body fat and huge boobs. Supermodel is kind of synonomous with beauty, so they just get kind of thrown together.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

jinnayah
2008-07-20 01:01 pm UTC (link)

I think this is it. The average woman on the street doesn't see many images of models on the runway; they see them in magazines. And in magazines, they do have huge boobs, thanks to the magic of Photoshop. (Last year, I saw a breakdown of how a cover of 14-year-old Miley Cyrus was photoshopped, and one of the things they did was take her from an A-cup to a C-cup or larger between digitally plumping her breaks and reducing her waist.) For another example, every time I've seen a picture of Naomi Campbell, it's been from a magazine and she's been at least a C-cup, so I went and found a news photo of her and... that's not how I've usually seen her.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	the_s_guy 2008-07-20 10:09 am UTC (link)
	Catwalk porn? (FX: skeletons rattling) (Reply to this)

tscheese
2008-07-20 11:07 am UTC (link)

I think it's what

bratkitty84 says. Porn stars and runway models are both supposed to represent a certain ideal of beauty. Obviously, not all models are portrayed in inherently sexual ways, though some certainly are--so I think it's only a small leap for some people to assume that "female beauty" = "sexual". So thin, pretty porn stars and thin, pretty models become the same mental category.

I'm glad you posted, this, actually - this is the first time I've ever heard or read that the "models have large bosoms" misconception even exists. During Fashion Week when lots of moddles are in town, people mostly just gape at them slackjawed or totally ignore them. I think I live in a media-saturated hyper-aware cesspool, though, so my experiences are probably not the norm for the rest of the country.

(Reply to this)

jasonfranks
2008-07-20 11:41 am UTC (link)

I reckon that the sexuality of the producers and the target audience has a lot do do with it. Supermodels tend to be unnaturally thin and a bit androgynous (these days); Pornstars are unnaturally curvy. (I notice that Hollywood actresses seem to find niches in either category.)

Catwalk models come have a more feminine target audience than pornstars--they are, after all, selling a designer's brand.

-- JF

(Reply to this)

	jennydevildoll 2008-07-20 05:36 pm UTC (link)
	I also think they're both these ideals that society tells women we're supposed to be, and women conflate the two because that's what we're being told to conform to. We're simultaneously being told the ideal woman is super-thin, but that she also has large breats. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	crowhen 2008-07-20 06:42 pm UTC (link)
	Then that is an impossible standard only achievable through surgery in most cases. Even Marilyn Monroe had body fat! Otherwise, her fantastic rack would have been a bit saggy, yes? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	jennydevildoll 2008-07-21 02:22 am UTC (link)
	Probably! I think the status quo has nearly as much to gain from keeping women fixated on something impossible as the plastic sugery industry does though. (Reply to this) (Parent)

goodkingnerdnor
2008-07-20 06:08 pm UTC (link)

36C certainly isn't "huge", but I don't know that I'd call it "modest" either, it's a fair bit more than most women who are not overweight have.

I think when girls go for the HUGE BOOBS argument, they're thinking of the big name models like:

Tyra Banks
Tyra is actually a 34C, the ineterweb would have me know, but if that's the case then her photos are more than a LITTLE touched up. See the cover of the SI Swimsuit edition she was on:

Those sure as hell don't look like C's to me.

We also have:

Heidi Klum

Heidi is also a 36C, but she's tall and lean, making them much more prominent. Her photoshopping and video editing do wonders too.

I've dated girls that wore a properly banded D somewhat TIGHTLY that had breasts that looked smaller than that.

So really, yeah, I agree that supermodels don't have "gigantic boobs", but relative to the rest of their body, some of these girls really pop - and if they don't, photoshop gurus can do some AMAZING work, increasing them easily a cup size or more.

See also:

Laetitia Casta and Kelly Brook

Kelly Brook is a 34E. Yes, E. So I think what you really need to notice here is the difference between "Supermodel" and "runway model". While there is some intersection of the groups, those that fit the first category do tend to be MUCH curvier than those that are stuck in the second.

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	crowhen 2008-07-20 06:40 pm UTC (link)
	I'm a 34 DD. The women in those photos had larger breasts than I! And a true 36C is a modest size. It's not small, but it's not large. None of Victoria's Secret's models could possibly be even that large. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	goodkingnerdnor 2008-07-20 08:31 pm UTC (link)
	Those are all, in fact, Victoria Secret models :) I specifically selected women that are, or have been, Victoria Secret models. Klum and Banks both were (Kelly Brook was not, but she is a lingerie model for another company). (Reply to this) (Parent)

	goodkingnerdnor 2008-07-20 08:33 pm UTC (link)
	Also, again, for average women that are not overweight, Cs and Ds are rather large. Someone at your height, no, it's not large, it's proportional, but the average women is 5'4. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	crowhen 2008-07-20 10:41 pm UTC (link)
	I think you're misunderstanding how bras are sized. A C on a normal sized woman is not that large. Cups are proportional measurement of the difference between the band size and the bust line. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

goodkingnerdnor
2008-07-20 10:51 pm UTC (link)

I understand perfectly how bras are sized. I've done it for a living before (don't ask).

Proper cup size determination is measured as such:

draw a line straight across your nipples, now make a perpendicular line to that line from your sternum, keeping it on a level plane with the floor.

That distance, in inches, determines cup size. 0-1 = A, 1-2 = B, 2-3 = C and so on (except for some brands where it's 0-0.5", 0.5-1.5" and so on).

I'm not saying it's "large" I'm simply saying it's larger than the average woman that is not overweight.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	goodkingnerdnor 2008-07-20 10:53 pm UTC (link)
	I'm also aware of the method where you take a measurement under the rib cage (the band) and across the bust and use that to determine the cup size, but that typically yields a bra that does not fit properly. The method I described above typically yields a bra that is far far more comfortable and properly fitting. (Reply to this) (Parent)

sambucivox
2008-07-20 11:24 pm UTC (link)

What about models that have (quite) recently been moms? Wouldn't they have slightly larger busts than the rest?

I highly dislike most catwalk bodies. I used to work at the Fashion Museum in Madrid and I got to attend a lot of lectures on how much models have changed from the eighties to now. Videos showed Claudia and Iman and company being smily, shiny, self confident women who literally charmed the public. They took long, airy strides and had flesh in their cheeks to show dimples, and even the lower-ranked models followed on their path. Then, for some reason, most girls in that business became too skinny, too grey-faced, started to walk like army robots and to look positively unhealthy... I wonder what hit the designers on the head.

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	el_chubacabra 2008-07-21 12:48 am UTC (link)
	The thing that isn't fair is that if those models's boobs were REALLY that size, they wouldn't be able to fit in any of VS's bras in the first place. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	crowhen 2008-07-21 02:52 am UTC (link)
	Tell me about it. For awhile I was a VS fan, until I realized how shitty their credit card and its rewards programs are. I have to wear a 34DD in their bras even though I'm measured as a 36C, my breasts are always popping out of the bras and the bras keep falling apart on me. If you have largish breasts, Freya is THE brand to get. They fit. Really, really well. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	el_chubacabra 2008-07-21 08:51 pm UTC (link)
	I LOVE Freya, as a 34G, it's really hard to find bras that don't look like they come out of some granny's closet. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

	crowhen 2008-07-21 10:33 pm UTC (link)
	God, I love my meshy Freya bra I got in New York. It cost as much as a VS one, but the fit is fantastic! (Reply to this) (Parent)

kimonos_house
2008-07-23 05:07 am UTC (link)

You know, I just really miss Cindy Crawford. She was curvy, different, and smart. Really, really smart. She was majoring in chemical engineering when she left school to model. I'm anxious for the fashion industry to go back to that standard! (Still unachievable for most of us, but at least those women were healthy. I doubt the current crop even menstruate.)

As for the fake boobs, my husband says he doesn't like them because they don't move like real ones. I've always wondered how most guys view fake boobs.

(Reply to this)

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